This is the Thursday interview closing Week 7 of Self-Evident: The Road to 1776 — the week we traced the Dutch Republic, the first modern commercial republic, which grew prosperous not by concentrating power but by refusing to. All week the argument was that liberty and prosperity travel together, and that power held far from the people tends to be power misused. This conversation puts a living face on it: a candidate standing in the middle of the machinery, who can tell you

This is the story of how a revolt became a republic almost by accident, how toleration and commerce fed each other until a small waterlogged country surpassed a vast empire, and how the men who built it also built, on the far side of the world, a machinery of conquest and slavery that cannot be edited out of the account of it.

The revolt that began as a defense of provincial liberties against a foreign king had produced something its own leaders never set out to build: a durable, tolerant, prosperous republic that governed itself without a crown and became, for a century, one of the richest societies in Europe and among the most free and religiously plural of its political orders. It was the practical answer to the question the resistance theorists had left hanging — not only how to be rid of a tyr